Ep34 Holly Wittwer—Nevada Mom Grew A Homeschool Convention Into A Statewide Event In Three Years

Holly Wittwer  0:00  
So whenever I started homeschooling, there was like so many gaps. That was how mine started. I was like, okay, I see a need in the community. I was actually working for a company where I was traveling to different homeschool conventions, and I was like, why do we not have this in Las Vegas? Like, oh, I can absolutely do this. We can make this happen here in Vegas.

Scott Groves  0:21  
Welcome to Henderson HQ. This is the podcast where you get all the stories behind the businesses that make our community tick. Don't forget to subscribe to our weekly newsletter. Hey, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Henderson HQ podcast. Don't forget to subscribe to our website, our newsletter, all the things at HendersonHQ.com. I'm actually here with a new friend of mine, old friend of my wife's, Holly, who runs a company called Home Educated, and basically what they are doing are they are creating resources for families that are looking to step away from public school. And I know this is a divisive topic, and it's near and dear to my heart because my wife actually runs Apogee Henderson, which is a micro school that we pretty much designed for our own children, for like their needs and minds, because our kids can't sit still, so we needed to design another curriculum for them. And so I'm interested to dig in with Holly. My wife met Holly at a convention that's just for micro schools, homeschools, basically alternative school options. And my wife was like, "Holly's awesome. You've got to talk to her. You've got to talk to her about like the mission that she has on basically making education more accessible to kids that don't fit public school or not happy with the current ranking of public schools in Henderson and Nevada at large. So let's start with you. Like, where'd you come from? What's your background? How does somebody decide to dedicate their life to this this mission?

Holly Wittwer  1:36  
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I am married. We've got three boys, so same kind of thing like you. Like I was like, these kids can't sit down for six hours a day, like they're crazy. We are actually local to Las Vegas. We were both born and raised here. Oh, we are

Scott Groves  1:54  
at the fourth walk.

Holly Wittwer  1:55  
Our kids, though, are actually fourth generation Nevadans. Like my grandma grew up going to Western High School. It was like one of the four high schools that existed in Vegas, and she went there. And so we're kind of just stuck here. And so we've decided that since we're stuck here, we're going to do the best with it. So we we love it. We don't we don't know any better, right? We don't have anywhere else, and so just as a family, it's kind of our goal to try to make the area better. And so, when we started homeschooling, we were like, "Yeah, we gotta, we gotta help some other people out in this area. So,

Scott Groves  2:34  
there's a lot of families that can't afford, don't have the time for either private school or homeschooling because both parents are working. I know that that is

Speaker 1  2:41  
a totally

Scott Groves  2:42  
realistic situation. It pains me to think that public school for a lot of families has basically become babysitting. Maybe they're super involved in their kids' education. They're a great education, and there are some great public schools out there. There are some that just by the standard. I'm not insulting any of the individual teachers. I don't want to hear from the city council.

Holly Wittwer  2:59  
No, but just by the

Scott Groves  3:00  
standard of where test scores are and reading levels are and whatnot, like schools across the board, especially maybe in Nevada, are failing. Plain and simple.

Holly Wittwer  3:08  
Absolutely,

Scott Groves  3:08  
I will argue that with anybody who wants

Holly Wittwer  3:10  
to facts. It's not even it's not even like we're gossiping here in private or in public. It is literally just the facts. Like we are at the bottom of everything. Everybody knows that. It's not a surprise to anybody, but yeah, I'm with you. Like I, I always, always say I've got a mom who's a teacher. I have a sister who's a teacher. I'm like, I'm in a family full of teachers, and I'm like, teachers literally should just be like sainted. The majority of them are amazing, amazing people, and it's not their fault that the system is the way that it is, there's so there's such a myriad of other reasons why it's such a crapshoot at this point, and I'm like, but the teachers who are there, who you know, because it's not like you go like everybody says you don't go into education to make a bunch of money, right? Like it's like you you're there because you want to help kids learn, and so I'm like, the majority of teachers, you know, besides the ones that are in the news for their stuff, which has been insane lately, like it has just been off the charts lately. But the majority of the teachers, you're like, you're out there sacrificing everything, and you're not getting support from one end, and you're getting parents attacking you from the other end, and you know, you're trying to take care of 35 kids, and you know, you're paying for your own classroom set of books and stuff. I'm like, it's just outlandish the things that they're trying to do, and so it doesn't surprise me all the people who are fleeing because you know the teacher that doesn't have an aide that's trying to take care of all these kids, you know, is unable to get every single one of those kids individualized, you know, education. Like there's no, it's just yeah, it's too much. It's too much. They're asking. They're being asked to do too much, and it's just not okay anymore.

Scott Groves  4:45  
Is this how you felt from the beginning, or were your kids in public school and then there was like an aha moment, or

Holly Wittwer  4:49  
yeah, that's

Scott Groves  4:50  
typical COVID situation where you

Holly Wittwer  4:52  
kind of. So my oldest, we sent him to school for four days, right when everybody was going back from. And I never thought that I would be a homeschool mom. Like I was kind of like the type where I was like, I don't even know if I like kids, you know. And so I'm like, well, you're three old. Yeah, exactly. And I'm like, they're they're pretty cool now that I have them. Um, but but yeah. So I was like, I'm not interested in homeschooling. Like that's like weird, you know. There, you always know that one homeschool kid that's weird and not so. I realized him. I'm

Scott Groves  5:23  
47, so when I was growing up and going to school in the 80s, early 90s, that was the thing. Like, oh yeah, we know some homeschool kids, and maybe they did it for religious reasons or were not. And it's like, oh, they're kind of weird. Or I, I did know. I'm still friends with him. Shout out to my buddy. He knows who I'm talking about. He legitimately wasn't a cult, and they wouldn't allow their kids to go to a public school, and he has since exited the cult. Very happy for him. Yes, he has a much better life now. But like that was kind of the stigma 80s, 90s, and obviously that's gone away because I think something like depending on what study you read, somewhere between six and 16% of kids are now homeschooled or alternatively educated. Yeah. Um. So what was your aha moment? Sorry, you came back. No, you're

Holly Wittwer  6:01  
good. Yeah, so so we were like, okay, we're sending our oldest to kindergarten for the first time, and so you know, I went to like the meet the teacher thing, and I was like, this is insanity. Like, I was like, there are so many systems in this classroom. Like, I was like, I did not even understand half of what you just said because I I don't know you know the teachers they're so like on top of it that I was like I'm a first time parent I don't know what I'm doing but it was it was so much more than that so he went for the four days and by Friday I told my husband I was like I'm not doing this anymore like every single day that he was there I was just like this is not for us like this is not for us I do not like to be told what to do, and I really don't like my kids being told what to do. I'm like, we have a lot more independence in our family than than I think that you know the majority of people think that they are allowed to have. And I was like, I don't really want you telling my kid that they have to come home from school and do homework like when like no in kindergarten at five and I was like that's not happening you know what I mean and then just just all the little things like I cannot get my kids I'm not gonna wake my kids up at like seven a.m. to make sure that they get out of the door like if they're sleeping I'm gonna let my kids sleep like you know what I mean like they're children, they should be sleeping when they're supposed to be sleeping, and so it was just kind of all of the systems that were like around the school because the school, like we actually we moved to, we're in Boulder City, and we moved to Boulder City because people told us that the schools were so great, and they are so great. They're ranked very high. They've got fantastic. Half of my best friends are all teachers out there, and and I'm like they are fantastic schools, and I was just like I just don't like this. I don't want to be involved in like letting my kid go learn from somebody else that I don't know, and I don't know all the people at the school. So the cherry on top for me, whenever I was like I'm done with this, we're out of here, was because of COVID. Not only were they, you know, trying to encourage five-year-olds to wear masks, kind of a thing, but which I was like, my child's just eating his mask. He said, I mean, they all were just like chewing on the masks at that point, right? And I was like, that's just-it's just not like logically going to happen. But was I asked if I could be a room mom, room mom, or whatever they call it, where you like volunteer in the room and then see him at lunch, like come and eat lunch with him, and they were like, "No, no, like it's COVID, you can't do that. And I was like, "Well, I'm not handing you my child for six hours a day. I'm sorry, like that's the end. So, so we took him out. My husband was not a fan, and I think that he would be okay with me saying that because he was really against it at the beginning. And so we kind of just did. We'll just just take it one year at a time. That was kind of my foot in the door, and so we did. We took it one year at a time, and each year it would be like, no, things are going pretty good, and now we're in so deep that we will never be able to get out. I'm like, there's no going back. Not that we would want to, but um. So it's

Scott Groves  9:09  
funny because I I can see a certain cross section of listeners or parents or somebody might get their hands on this, rolling their eyes of like, oh, she said she doesn't like her kid to be told what to do. He must be a brat. There must be one of those entitled parents. I and I get that. No, totally. Is I I feel very much the same way. It's like we give our kids a lot of autonomy. We give them a lot of adult responsibility. Oh yeah. You know. And the the flip side of it is we expect them to be respectful. So it's nice when we meet adults and we get adults to tell us all the time. And I have to brag about my kids. They're like, your kids are so polite, your kids are so mature. They, you know, my my friend was staying here. He's a professional poker player, and he was playing the World Series of Poker. So I stayed here, and we had dinner. And he's like, Scott, I don't think you understand the social graces your kid has. Alina, my daughter, who's eight, asked me how my day was, and she didn't ask it as a canned question. She actually. To have a conversation about how my day was and how much money did I lose playing poker and did I win and what do I have to do to be a better winning poker player and she was so inquisitive she's like he's like I have an eight year old nine year old all of his friends I can't even get them to make eye contact because they're they're constantly buried in a phone or a computer or a video game and to your point there's probably 35 kids in their class, and they don't get the individual attention. They're not being like taught how to talk to adults. Yeah. And so, for anybody who's skeptical, I've met a lot of homeschool kids, or a lot of kids that are in micro schools and registers homeschoolers. Yep. And I have better conversations with them than the kids that I meet that go to public school. Sadly, yeah. Because they have to. They're they're they're having conversation all day long with adults,

Holly Wittwer  10:41  
exactly. Yes, yes, and that's you know. So, so as a homeschool mom who is also running a business, and I'm I'm running around town with all three of my boys, right? And so I'm like, we've had to teach them those. You know, everybody's so worried about that the homeschool kids aren't socialized. I'm like, we are never sitting in our house. We are never in our house. Like we are literally out all the time, and I'm like, honestly, I would have brought them here if I my two year old is on a very mommy is everything to me right now, so he would just be sitting in my lap trying to touch the microphone the whole time. But usually, I bring them with me to everything that I do, so they're meeting business owners throughout the valley all the time, and they'll they are little entrepreneurs. They all have businesses. Some of them have multiple businesses, just like mommy does. And I mean, they just constantly. How much money do you think that it costs for that person to rent out that business? And do you think that they should probably just be buying it instead? And I'm like, I love talking to you guys. You guys are the best. Like, I just love having my little best friends with me. Like, just my little brain children, you know, being able to be like, yeah, you're right. That's a really good question. And then I'll encourage them. Why don't you go and ask them that? So you know what I mean. If they were here with you, they'd be like, "What do you do for a living? Like, what? How do you? Yeah, and my kids are always, "How much does your house cost? And I'm like, "Guys, let's let's talk about like you know, there's boundaries about like you know the things that you ask, but that's a good point. Yeah, and I'm like, and half the time, the parents, the adults that were around, they're like, we just we we want to answer their questions. They have really good, deep questions and stuff. And I'm like, yeah, I know they're awesome, like because they're not sitting in a desk all day, you know, spending x amount of time on math and x amount of time on reading and blah blah blah blah blah. Like they get to be led by their passions, and right now it's for one of them, it is very much entrepreneurism. The other one, it's beefing on the government. Like they are just, I mean, and he's seven. Like it's just, it's so fun. Like he just, yeah, they're they're a blast. They're they're good kids. So

Scott Groves  12:39  
I I got to give a shout out to Nick. He runs a shop called Customs Customs. He is our kids' football coach. The way that we met him and got Shanghaied into playing football is we took a welding class. So he does a welding class for like I think it's eight or nine to 14 year olds, and he does it twice a year. So Gabriel, my son, really loves working with his hands. We did this welding class, and I was scared at first, but then I'm like, "Oh no, he has the maturity to do this. I still thought it was going to be like four weeks of safety briefings, and then they were going to do like one little weld. Nope, 30 minutes in, Gabriel's like, "We were using a plasma torch, and we were doing this, and this is the coolest thing ever. He's like, "Dad, how much would it cost to start a welding business? How much money do I need for this? How good do I need to get before somebody will pay me to do air welding, and I'm like, yes, these are the kind of questions I want to have at 10 years old. Absolutely, I'm not reading one grade level ahead. I'm a loser. My torture hates me. Everybody in school makes fun of me, which was the experience we were also having in kindergarten. Yeah, where it's like, blame it. They're sitting there seven hours a day, and they have homework. And if they're not a grade level ahead, they're like basically casualized. Right. We could we could just see Gabriel's confidence. He's a very confident, funny, outgoing kid. We could just see his confidence dropping every. My wife was crying at night. We were having a problem, so my wife said, "We got to come up with a solution. And then coincidentally, right as we were making the decision to homeschool, a friend of mine, Matt Badro, called me. He's like, "Hey, I I kind of see your social media post. I know you're not really happy with the direction of public school. We're opening 60 of these apogee schools and academies across the country. Would you be interested in doing one of them? I'm like, well, I got no time. Talk to my wife, and she. I wrote the check. She does everything else.

Holly Wittwer  14:12  
I love. I love it. You're like, I have no time, but yes, absolutely, let's do it. That's exactly how I am.

Scott Groves  14:17  
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Holly Wittwer  15:26  
Absolutely, yeah. So, so the convention kind of just started. So, whenever I started homeschooling, there was like so many gaps that really over just the past five years have started to to get filled in with places like Apogee, so like you know micro schools and stuff that are popping up, and co-ops, and parents that you know are leaving the public school system, and they're like, "Oh, I see a need in the community, right? So that was how mine started. I was like, "Okay, I see a need in the community. I was actually working for a company where I was traveling to different homeschool conventions, and I was like, "Why do we not have this in Las Vegas? Like we're Las Vegas, and I'm a event planner by trade. It's just how my mind works. And so I was going around to these different ones, and I was like, "Oh, I can absolutely do this! Like we can make this happen here in Vegas, like 100%. So within

Scott Groves  16:20  
we have any conventions here,

Holly Wittwer  16:21  
right? Exactly. Yeah, I was like, "This is gonna be easy. And the crazy thing is, is it was easy because so many people were interested in it. They were all just like, "We want in. We want on board. Like, absolutely. What do you need? How can we help support you? I mean, it was just you know blew me out of the water the way that people were just coming out of the woodworks just to be like, yes, yes, yes. We want to be in on this whole homeschool scene that is happening, and so we've been we're on our third year now for the convention, and so it has been fantastic because I get to meet wonderful people like your wife, and it's it's kind of like a fun party for all of us who are like the vendors and stuff. And I'm like, oh, I only get to see you once a year, but like I see all the things you're doing, and so we all come together, and you know, I'm like, oh, this is great. Like,

Scott Groves  17:02  
when did your next one, by the way?

Holly Wittwer  17:03  
So it is next spring. We do them in March. Spring. Um, yeah. So it's every. It's going to be every spring. Um, and so, so they have just been. I mean, they've grown astronomically from year to year, and um, the families that go. I mean, we'll get moms, dads coming up to us and just be like in tears. Like I didn't know if I wanted to homeschool. I didn't know if I could do this. But after hearing so and so's talk, like this was just exactly what I needed. And I'm like, yes, this is what all of us needed. And it wasn't there whenever I started. Like there just wasn't like a place or resource to go to be like, I have questions. Can you answer them for me? And so I was like, Well, I'm just gonna build that. So I had, I mean, I would have people on Facebook or email and stuff every day. I would get like 20 messages with the exact same question.

Scott Groves  17:54  
What curriculum should you?

Holly Wittwer  17:56  
What buzzard say? What? How do I fill out a notice of intent? Let's do homeschool. What's the age? And I was like, my like type A mom. Like I was like, I'm just gonna put all of this into one form and answer all of the questions, so that everybody can just have it. And so it literally kind of just started like that. So by the way,

Scott Groves  18:13  
if you have a link to that like FAQ, I'd love to put in the show notes and get it. Yeah, absolutely.

Holly Wittwer  18:17  
Yeah, yeah. Home dasheducated.org, and there is so much information there. So so that's how it started. Was like there was the convention, and then after this last convention, we were like, we need to be doing this year round, like in a different way. So now with Home Educated, and the convention is Nevada Homeschool Convention or NevCon for short, and um, it's it's really fun. It's been catching on. We've got people coming from other states, coming to it, we've got vendors coming all the way from across you know the country and stuff to be here with us. And so then our team, we were talking after this last convention, and we were like, these parents just they don't need just a one time a year thing. Like this is a great, exciting pump up kind of an experience to be in the same room with people who all have the same like you know, fun you know experience as you, and you get to know other people. But we're like, they just need the education and the support year round. So that's when we started home educated. And so now what we're doing is we're we're launching a podcast in a few weeks, so that that way, as people are asking questions, we're able to answer them. And like you said, like so that way, I can just be like, okay, let me answer this one question, and then if somebody asks that to me, I can just send them to link to the podcast. As I'm like, that's so much easier for me because I'm still homeschooling three boys. You know what I mean? Like I don't have all the time in the world, and so so that's one aspect that we're going with now. We have a fantastic resource directory online, and so what we have done is put that into Las Vegas locals, so we have a ton of Las Vegas local businesses who cater to the homeschool community, and we have them all listed on there, like what area of town they're in. So, like we've got Apogee on there, and anytime anybody asks me about, you know, what are some micro. Schools in the Henderson area, and I'm like Apogee Joy Academy. You know what I mean? Like I'm spending them tons of them, right? Because I'm like I don't I don't want to open a micro school. That's not what I want to do. But there's already people doing it, so let me just send that information to you. So the directory is fantastic. It's also nationwide as well, so you can have like the in-person resources. Then we have nationwide. So if people are like, you know, what curriculum do I use, which we get all the time, you know, which I'm like, there's a whole process to walk through to get to that point and stuff. So and all of that is on the website. So we're doing blogs on every question that anybody, you know, 10 first steps to begin homeschooling, how to homeschool on a budget, what first grade looked like 20 years ago versus now, and like why it could still look like it was 20 years ago and be okay, and how to homeschool multiple kids, how to work and homeschool. Like you know, there's we're just giving all the information in one place for all of the families who just have the questions. So new old

Scott Groves  21:00  
homeschool meetups yet?

Holly Wittwer  21:01  
Sort of, because there are so many homeschool meetups that are already going on that at this point we're just pushing those. We're like we have a calendar, we have newsletter, and we're just like, hey, this group. So, for example, homeschool fitness 702 They are doing PE classes all over the Vegas Valley because they saw a need for it. Right? They were like, there's no

Scott Groves  21:20  
fitness seven

Holly Wittwer  21:21  
and two yeah

Scott Groves  21:22  
right shout out to them I know I want to I want to meet them and have them

Holly Wittwer  21:24  
you definitely need to have them they are amazing women and they are killing it they just had this field day that my kids have been talking about for the entire month like it was all pirate themed and they had I mean it was off the charts it was so cool and so it was fun because it's like will you kind of still get that semi like large group public school experience of having field day and doing the sports and stuff, but like your parents are sitting on the sideline. So if you have a problem, like you're not like required to finish, you know, the activity, and you're not gonna fail if you don't participate. You know what I mean? Like my kid ran over one time and was like, "Mom, I didn't enjoy that part, and I'm like, "All right, we'll sit here in the shade with me for a minute, and then we can go back out there. All right, bye. You know, so it's just a different way of thinking completely, but it's it's fun. So, so yeah, so it's fun because I get to meet all those people and then get to be like, hey, I'm not gonna run a PE class because I don't have time for that, nor the energy, or do I want to be outside in 110 degree weather. But Jocelyn is doing it, and so I'm like, and Renee is doing it. So why don't you go to their classes? So that's that's really what it's turned into is is helping just coordinate what everyone's doing in one spot. And then the other really, really, really cool thing that I'm very excited about is that we're starting a physical magazine, like shipped to your home because that is a total homeschool mom thing is to want to have a piece of paper in your hand and not a phone in your hand or a computer or tablet, and so home educated magazine I'm really excited about because the majority of it, the whole first half of it, is all kid authored. So you can submit like artwork, writing, like you know, if your son has you know loved football, he can write a little bit about it. We take a picture of him, you know, doing his football, and he gets to be featured in the magazine, which is so cool on so many different aspects. Because I'm like, that is something that I think a lot of homeschool parents are like, oh, well, my kid didn't get to be like student of the month. You know what I mean? Like they don't get that kind of recognition. So we're trying to help a little bit with that. Of like, hey, you got featured in this magazine that goes out to the whole country. Like, you are semi famous now. How exciting is that? You know what I mean. And you can put that on a resume, and you know, and for jobs, and so that's one cool thing. And then, like, we have a whole teen section. I've gotten a lot of teen artwork being turned in lately, which is awesome. A lot of entrepreneurship because you know the kids they have the time and the energy and the minds to do it when they're homeschooling. So we get a lot of those submissions and stuff, and then the rest will be all parent education and local resources and stuff like that. So

Scott Groves  23:53  
that's awesome.

Holly Wittwer  23:54  
I am so excited about that.

Scott Groves  23:55  
I was listening to a podcast the other day, and the guy said something profound, and he's like, in the modern era of ChatGPT and stuff, you know, because I don't know how old you are, but I'm 47. When I went to school, it was like junior high. Memorize the table of periodic elements or whatever it was, and it's like with Google and ChatGPT and Claude, you don't have to memorize anything ever again. Like you basically just need to know basic math, reading, and like how to craft good questions.

Holly Wittwer  24:21  
Yes,

Scott Groves  24:21  
and what this guy was talking about, I was listening to a podcast about public education. He said the problem is public education doesn't give you any space to think about the way that you're thinking.

Holly Wittwer  24:30  
Yeah, and

Scott Groves  24:31  
I was like, oh, that's so good because that's something that I think parents naturally do by because they have the time and they have the asking questions back when you get a question. Right? We've all been asked why a million times to death by our kids, and it's like I'll turn it back around. I'm like, hey, why do you want to know that? Yeah, and it like stumps them, and they're like, well, I I kind of want to know how tall the Eiffel Tower is because like, yeah, how many $100 bills would I have to stack up if I wanted to reach the top of the Eiffel Tower? A little bit, and I'm like, these are great questions, right? So it's like. I I just I I'm obviously biased. We run them both by school. I'm 100 politically kind of at odds with what public school is doing these days. So there's there's a lot of reasons why don't take my word for it. Do your own research.

Holly Wittwer  25:11  
Absolutely.

Scott Groves  25:12  
But I would be willing to bet my bottom dollar that like homeschool and micro school kids that have more student led activities and more passion led activities. Those people just ask better questions, and that's going to be the future. Yeah, like

Holly Wittwer  25:24  
absolutely.

Scott Groves  25:25  
If college even exists in 10 years in its current format, I suspect most of the courses will revolve around how to prompt a good question so you can get good feedback versus hey, memorize this. Yeah, yeah. There's

Holly Wittwer  25:38  
no point.

Scott Groves  25:38  
What's the point?

Holly Wittwer  25:39  
I mean, the the joke is is like oh when when we were younger you know you're not gonna have a calculator in your pocket like you know when you grow up and we're like uh we've got way more than a calculator in our pocket at this point so like I'm just gonna do the math on my calculator you know and so I'm like that's just the more efficient way of doing it it's the smarter way my kids constantly smarter not harder mom and I'm like, you're not wrong, guys. Like, and I won't. the The cool thing about homeschooling is I'm like, I will not sit there and force them to finish a worksheet. I'm like, show me that you can do two of these problems. If you can prove that to me, we'll just move on to the next subject. You know what I mean? Like my son, who's seven, he's showing me multiplication with um these little magnet block things the other day, and I was like, "Okay, show me two times three. He does it. Okay, show me five times four. He's like, "Okay, he does it. And then he's like, "Okay, now I built a horse, and it's it's 24 blocks. And if I take away the head, wham! And he smacks the head down. He's like, "20 blocks, mom. And I was like, "This is the best math lesson we've ever had. Like, you know I'm like you're thinking outside of the box and then he sits and plays with the magnet tiles with his imagination that still exists because it hasn't been squandered. I'm like he gets to you know do that and he sits there for hours playing with those little magnet block things and I'm like this is great I love that you get to do this. They were building an entire city and out of Legos, of course, because that is like our number one curriculum is Lego. And so I'm like, they were building a whole city this morning. I didn't see them for like two hours, and I'm like, what are you guys doing? And they're like, oh, we're building a city, mom. Like it's it's got a mayor, it has a police chief. Like there's a couple guys in jail right now, and we we can't talk about it. And you know, I mean, they've got like it's just so fun. Like I'm like you guys are the best like you're just they're so cool and it's it's cool to one other thing that I just absolutely love about homeschooling is I'm like I get to see all of that and that is so exciting to me like I'm like I didn't miss the first time that my child read their first word and stuff I was like I was there for it and I was the one putting in all the painstaking work to get them to that point and then I was like, "Yeah, it's like we did, not you did like we did this, like I did that. So it's it's fun, it's exciting to get to be a part of the journey. So

Scott Groves  27:50  
so talk to the parents that maybe are fed up with public school but don't have the time resources or the money resources maybe to do the homeschool thing, right? Like, obviously, there's options like ours and Acton and Joy Academy and stuff like that. So, if you have the money, you can send your kid to a micro school that has a little bit more the homeschool vibe. But you know, a lot of parents don't have 10 to $15,000 a year to send their kids to what's effectively a homeschool private school. If that makes sense, so can you talk about like, all right, I'm a parent. I'm sick of the public school system, and my husband and I both need to work full time to make ends meet. I can't be teaching reading and whatnot. What are options, resources, grants, anything like that?

Holly Wittwer  28:33  
That would be like such a hard situation, right? Because I'm like my husband works a nine to five job. I build businesses from home, and so you know, I have my kids with me through all of that, and it is extremely hard. But the parents that I've talked to that have both parents working, my advice always to them is: I'm like, well, what other you know family do you have? Any other family around? And sometimes the answer is no. Like I have zero other family around. But sometimes it's like, well, yeah, he's already going to grandma's on Tuesdays. Maybe she could do Tuesday and Thursday. My husband could swap off this with me, and you know what I mean. I'm like, find the people around you that are willing to help, and also I'm like, connect with other homeschool parents. Like you can swap your kids with other homeschool parents that you know and trust. I've done that. I cannot tell you how many times I'm like, I cannot handle these kids today. Somebody needs to take them, and they will take them for you know half of a day, and I'm like, oh, okay, I'm better now. I'll take your kids tomorrow. You know what I mean? And so, and there are actually so kind of like a co-op. Yeah, kind of. Yeah, and I've done lots of different like co-op situations where I'm there or somewhere that are drop-off, and all of them are helpful. Like, so I actually started up my own drop-off type of school situation because kind of how you were saying like we needed a space for our kids that fit them so we started Apogee. I did the same thing, Boulder City Homeschool Hub, and so I'm like they get to be dropped off for an hour or two. Do you know their Pokemon Club and their chess club and you know crochet club? They love crochet. Which is so weird and fun, and I'm like, you know, they get to go and do that. So I'm like, you know, find those resources. There are a lot more affordable things because most of the things that are being built by other homeschool families, they're like, we get it. You don't have a lot of money to put your kids into these programs. We're gonna keep them as affordable as humanly possible. So I'm like, they're out there, but yeah, hook up with other homeschool families for sure, because that's just going to help you, you know, be in the know and swap off, you know, look at the resources that are around you for family and stuff like that. And then, really, it's not you're not at home teaching your child for six hours to eight hours a day. Right, like it can be done in like two. I honestly would say that the the sit down learning portion could be done in two, depending on their age. If they're younger, less. If they're older, more. But a lot of that could be done through online programs. And if they're doing that for four hours on their own, and then they, you know, go over to a friend's house after that, like there's there's ways, and I like helping people solve those problems because sometimes there's just not a lot that they're like, I just didn't think about it that way, and I'm like, if he's already being babysat by Grandma on Thursday nights, have Grandma be in charge of reading. You know what I mean? Have Grandma, you know, read books to him, and then that's one thing off of your plate that you don't have to teach him in between your job. There's a lot of ways to get it done.

Scott Groves  31:16  
So I have to have to be careful how I tell this story because you don't sell anybody out. But a friend of mine whose kids are in an alternative situation-they're not in public school anymore. What was the kind of like the straw that broke the camel's back for them? They have a neighbor who has a child with severe special needs. It's really a tragic story, but the the child's not allowed to go to school or can't can't physically go to the school. So the school, Clark County Education, whatever, sends out a teacher name, and the law is he, the the child that's physically disabled, has to get the same level of education. Well, that lady comes three times a week for two hours each time, and so he was talking to the neighbor and whatnot. He's like, well, wait a minute, how are they replacing full time education at school with three two-hour blocks a week, and what this educator admitted to the parent of the special needs child was like, let's be honest, for the education that we need at this level, and the child's not developmentally delayed; he's totally fine, just has physical problems. With the education that you need to receive, it's about six to eight hours a week of curriculum, yes, and the rest of it is basically just babysitting and socializing, and and trying to like get the kid that's the lowest common denominator up to speed and whatnot. So it's like when when I heard that, and when this other parent heard that, he's like, "Wait a minute! I can get all my kids' education done in somewhere between six or 10 hours a week, and then they can be working on their own projects or really pouring themselves into sports or whatever. You know, we have a we have a kid that trains here at our house because we have a little home jujitsu studio here, and he's very well educated, very smart. He's 10 years old training options, but he wants to be a jujitsu champion. So he brought a presentation to his parents. Here's why you should let me quit school so I can train jujitsu five hours a day. Yeah, and this is how I mean, at eight years old, he brought a presentation to his parents. I'm like, so now he does he does options trading in the morning.

Speaker 2  33:05  
Yeah,

Scott Groves  33:05  
he does a couple hours of education. Then they come here and they work at a couple different gyms, training four or five hours. And then if he does his homework, he has a profitable day on options. A strong day doing jujitsu, he's allowed to play as many video games as he wants. Yeah, it's like that's the agreement they have. I

Holly Wittwer  33:20  
love it,

Scott Groves  33:20  
and that kid would not be doing well in regular traditional schooling because he's got too much energy. He works out four hours a day, and he still wants to stay here till 10 o'clock at night, hang out and make it.

Holly Wittwer  33:29  
And that's the thing is, I'm like, that's the majority of kids. Like that is kids. Kids are supposed to have energy, and I hate that it has become normal for them to be like, if you are fidgeting in your seat, if you need to get up and stretch your. You know what I mean. I'm like, no, like they. I can't sit in a chair for six hours a day, and I'm a full grown adult. Like I can't do it. You know. And so yeah, that's that's awesome that he like did his own presentation. I absolutely love that. I ask my kids sometimes like, would you want to go to public school? They're like, absolutely not. We only have to work for like two hours a day. And in my mind, I'm like, you're doing a lot more work than you think that you're doing, but I like that you view it that way as well. That it's just it's just more efficient. It is just more efficient. We're getting so much more done. And honestly, I think about it sometimes, and I'm like, I need to ask some of my public school friends of like, how do you get anything done? Like, if your kids are gone for this amount of time every week, and then they're going to sports afterwards, you know, recreation clubs and stuff like that, and they have homework. I'm like, are they doing anything else? Like, I mean, that is that sounds exhausting to me. And I'm like,

Scott Groves  34:30  
ever a time when they're not being told exactly what cry teacher or coach or somebody.

Holly Wittwer  34:34  
Yes, like I'm like, when do they get the time to be able to explore their own interests? Like, I'm like, so

Scott Groves  34:39  
just free play or crime, or

Holly Wittwer  34:41  
I'm all about

Scott Groves  34:42  
either no.

Holly Wittwer  34:44  
Oh my gosh! When my kids in my house and they're like, "Mom, I'm bored, and I'm like, "Oh, good. I love when you are bored. You know why I love when you're bored? Because your best ideas come when you are bored out of your freaking mind, and they are bored. I will force them to be bored sometimes because I'm like, "You got." Figure out what to do. Figure it out, and you know, I'm like, I'm not putting a screen in front of you. I'm not telling you what to do. You're 10. You're old enough. Figure it out, and they always do. And then they come back, and I'm like, wow, that was way better than anything I would have come up with. You know what I mean? I'm like, you guys are, yeah, it's just cool. So,

Scott Groves  35:15  
so I promise this story will come full back to education. But so I was a loan officer for 25 years before I handed that business off to Leah. Shout out Leah. If you need a mortgage, call Leah James. Leah James Vega, actually. But I handed off my business to her, and I was having a political argument with a friend of mine about bankruptcy laws and debt. I'm like, you know, if you signed on the line that was dotted for $200,000 in student loans, you should have to pay that back, right? Which is crazy that they'll let an 18-year-old go a quarter of a million dollars in debt. And a buddy of mine who's pretty much a communist, so we disagree on everything. He's like, he's like, Scott, think about what you're saying. An 18-year-old that signs up for a bunch of student loans literally 90 days earlier had to ask for permission to go to the bathroom.

Speaker 2  36:00  
Yeah.

Scott Groves  36:00  
So if you're 1817, 1615, 12, and you're in the public school system, you have to raise your hand to go to the bathroom or get a pass or whatever. What kind of autonomous adult is the public school raising that then has the intellectual capacity to sign an 18 or 19 year old or a loan that will take them a lifetime repay? And I was like, totally changed my mind. I'm like, screw it, let everybody default on student loans. I don't care. The college should be held accountable if they didn't get them a degree that allowed them to make enough money to pay their student loans, and that really that changed my thinking on it. Of like, yeah, we're not raising functional adults in the current school system, and and then shortly thereafter, we decided to open our own school. Yeah. So tell us a little bit more about some of your favorite resources that are out there for homeschoolers.

Holly Wittwer  36:46  
Yeah, yeah. So I would honestly, my number one resource. It helped me the most whenever I was beginning was Dr. Blake Willard. He is a homeschool coach essentially, and he will go as in depth or as standoffish as you need, and so we just have weekly groups with the same parents. And literally, I tell him this every time we're there. I am like, just knowing that you're here and that you have education, that you. So he actually like opened up a bunch of private schools around the United States and stuff. So he's and he has been a teacher and he's been around kids. He's got his own kids, so he was like, "I don't like the system of private schooling, and so he stepped away from that to do homeschooling. And then he was like, "Okay, how do I help others? Right. So, so we have weekly meetings, and I'm like, I went from literally being like a mini teacher inside of my home, being like, "Okay, I'm lesson planning. I'm getting everything prepped for the next morning, and we're gonna sit like this, and the the room is clean, and then we'll stand up and we'll say the pledge, and then we will, you know, sit down and we'll get started with math. And you know, I was like, it was awful. Like I was like, well, clearly I'm just doing like everything that they're doing in public school, but but you know, in my home, and so just having him there to be able to help me, kind of like step through step, he's the best resource like out there. Absolutely, he actually lives here in Henderson, but he does this nationwide. Actually, he does it worldwide. He's got a couple of clients I know that are that are in other countries, and I just think that that's so cool. So just to have that sounding board of being like, I know that you know what you're talking about, and I know that I don't know everything that I'm talking about. So I've been with him for years, and I'm like, I will never leave because I'm like, you are just so helpful, and the group of moms that we have as well. I'm like, guys, we're becoming so educated together. Like, it's so fun. So, anyways, we have a good time with that. Let's

Scott Groves  38:35  
talk about specifically curriculum, right? Because I know that

Holly Wittwer  38:37  
was oh yeah,

Scott Groves  38:37  
that was months of thinking it through for what online curriculum we're gonna use.

Holly Wittwer  38:41  
Tell you what I do,

Scott Groves  38:41  
and then you know it's interesting because there's some new science coming out that like, hey, public school totally screwed up by these huge investments in computers and iPads and whatnot. Oh yeah, I they aren't learning quicker on that, and and I can see with my own kids when they do some online curriculum, like for some reason maybe there's not the pen to paper brain connection. I can tell they're guessing.

Holly Wittwer  39:04  
Oh, 100%

Scott Groves  39:05  
But then, but then when they when they have to write it out or they have to you know show their work or whatever term we would use scholastically, they can't guess, right? Yeah. So talk about some of your favorite like curriculum hacks or resources or think through

Holly Wittwer  39:17  
it. My favorite because before I met Dr. Willard. I had went through a lot of different types of curriculum, trying out different things, and being like, "This is not working. They hate it. We're fighting over this. Blah blah blah. So I use what is called the Core Knowledge series, and it is these books that I swear were written in like the '90s, and I love them to death. They're actually called like what your kindergartner needs to know what your first grader needs to know, what your second grader needs to know, right? So I don't love that they are categorized in that way because my kids don't know what grade they're in or where they they're like people ask them what grade are you in and they're like we're homeschooled and I'm like yeah

Scott Groves  39:53  
that's that's the one question my kids are stumped on. I'll talk to you about politics and I'll talk to you about finance and they're like what grade are you in? They look. I mean, they're like, what do I say? He would be roughly in fourth. Do you think? I don't.

Holly Wittwer  40:03  
I just I tell I have trained mine to say we're homeschooled. We don't we don't have grades, and so they're kind of like I'm on like level three of math, but like, and I'm like, yeah, but that means like sixth grades. You know what I mean? I'm like, if you need to start testing them on you know their math proficiency, which people do sometimes, and I'm like, keep your comments to yourself. Do not test my child on anything, but um, yeah. So I just tell my kids, I'm like, just tell them that you're homeschooled, and then hopefully they get that. And if they have any questions, they can ask me. So, um, but yeah, so so core knowledge series, right? So they've got what your first grader needs to know, what your kindergartner needs to know. Um, what I love about it is it is not like an actual curriculum. It's more of like a loose syllabus, so it's just kind of like at this age they should be able to, you know, X Y Z, right? By the time they're in second grade, they should be able to tell a manual clock. Which I'm like, I saw something the other day that was like this kid in high school going around asking his high school friends if they could tell the time on his clock, and he's like, I'll give you 100 bucks if you can do it. Not one of them could do it. Not one of them could tell like a manual clock. I was like, this is outrageous. My seven-year-old can tell the time on a real clock, guys.

Scott Groves  41:09  
I I saw, and I I know these are set up, and I know they're know they're edited. They know it's totally get it. I know, but like there should not be. I just saw this the other day. A single UCLA student that like doesn't know who the vice president is, right? Couldn't read an index card with like the word emphasis on it. Yeah, I mean these are UCLA cream of the croft supposedly college students,

Holly Wittwer  41:32  
right?

Scott Groves  41:32  
And they didn't have like basic knowledge. Yeah, it was embarrassing.

Holly Wittwer  41:36  
Yeah, there's a lot of that, and I'm just like, no. So what I do love about it is just like it won't be like okay your child it's time for them to learn about clocks and so here is a worksheet with clocks so test them on it or you know teach them it and then test it on it it's not that type of curriculum it's like they should know clocks around this time here's five to 10 different ways that you can make learning about clocks fun go and get a clock out you know what I mean and then you're gonna test them on the 30 minutes first, and then you're gonna turn it into a game, and then they're gonna hop across the room whenever they get it right, and you know what I mean. So it's just it's interactive, it's real life, right? So I'm like half the time it's like go to a store, and whenever you see a real clock, ask your kid what time it is, and I'm like, well, duh, like that just makes sense because that's real life learning versus write it down on the worksheet and then try to pass it off on the test. So I'm clearly not a big fan of testing either, and I'm just like, if I know that you know it and you know that you know it, then we're good. All right, let's move on to the next step. You know, yeah. So I love, love, love these curriculums. They go from kindergarten. They might have a pre k1 but I know they go from kindergarten to sixth. So you'll have to ask me whenever my kids get older what my higher level recommendations are. But for right now, that's where we're jamming, and it's awesome. Like it's

Scott Groves  42:50  
what's crazy is like if you're an engaged parent, I feel like after six ish grade, you know, where kids can read and they're more competent. Yeah, it's like after they can, you know, do the do the basic comprehension stuff. Yeah, like I can't wait for a couple more years. Right, where like I got a stack of books back there that Gabriel will get 100 bucks per book if he reads and gives a book report because like I want him to read Get Rich and Influence People. I want him to read Place Economic. Yeah, I want him to read.

Holly Wittwer  43:18  
My kids the other day were like, Mom, I want to read the real version of How to Win Friends and Influence People, and I was like, "Where did you hear that from? Dog Man, of course, which is like the bane of my existence. But I'm like, whatever, it's fine. He's reading and not on a screen, so I'm like, fine. But I, he's like, I want to read that, like the real book of that, and I'm like, awesome. Like, I haven't read that in a couple years. I know your dad just did. Let's listen to it as family. You know what I mean? I'm like, it's so cool the the the interests that they get because they have the time to do it. So yeah, so the reason the real like the the this curriculum I'm talking about is so cool because it also has like we're going through famous sayings right now. So like two heads are better than one, or you're on thin ice. And and my seven year old, you know, what does that mean, mom? That just doesn't make sense. If it doesn't explain enough in the book, then we go and look it up together, like, or we'll call Grandma and be like, "Let's ask Grandma. She probably knows what that means. They love finding out about those things, so we spend a lot of time just researching and learning things that we want to learn about.

Scott Groves  44:16  
So, a friend of mine. This is just like another testament to like kind of homeschool or parent led education, a friend of mine became a stepdad late in life, and he had a bad back, and like he was much older, and he was like, I I have a 10 year old son, I don't have the physicality to like go play basketball with him and whatnot, and like I'm not the real dad and whatnot. So he he kind of came up with this idea of like, how can I positively affect this kid and have influence. And this kid's a rock star, super smart kid, amazing job. Two degrees from USC. But what he did at a young age is he had a list of history, personal development, professional development books, and he told him every time you read one of these books and you give me a verbal book report, I will give you $100

Holly Wittwer  44:59  
I love it.

Scott Groves  44:59  
He's like. It ended up costing me like nine grand over the course over the course of junior high, high school, and college. He's like, but to this day, my son will be like, you know, I probably could have skipped USC because I read my personal MBA when I was 17 and got most of the information I learned MBA. So just like another piece of evidence that like a little bit of parent involvement goes a super long way, yeah. And and I think even everybody that for whatever reason you're sticking with public school because you're emotionally or physically or financially, like you can still have a lot of influence over your kids' education. Absolutely, yeah. I do agree with that. I'm also excited. One thing that I just found out that the public schools do here because there is so many homeschoolers. I was a little worried. Gabriel loves football, and I'm like, "Well, what happens if he gets to high school? We don't want to be a public high school, but he wants to play football. Almost all the high schools around here will let you opt in for a sports program and still be homeschooled. Do you know more about that? Because I just thought

Holly Wittwer  45:53  
about yeah, a little bit. Yeah. So when we started, so what you can do is just enroll. I believe I don't know the technical like form, but for specials. So when I took my son out after the four days, my husband was like, "But what if he just still goes for music and PE and library and art and stuff like that? And I was like, "Okay, fine, we'll give it a try. So yeah, so he was able to attend those. He didn't have to attend anything else, and so he just went for those, you know, the fun ones, and that lasted like two months. I was like, "This is a total waste of our time. Like, I could be, we could be doing this in such a more proficient way, and a better way, and a better environment. And everybody's like, "Who is that kid? Because he only comes for music. You know what I mean? So it was just kind of awkward. But yeah, so the the kids in high school and stuff, you can you can sign up at the school and you can play. I do know that I have heard, and I don't want to say that this was in CCSD, but just because I get a lot of the news from other homeschoolers around the nation that that sometimes there's a pushback with the school, so like your kid can get on the team, but they're not going to play them because they're a homeschooler. But I I think that's probably just conversations you have to have with the school and with the houses or

Scott Groves  47:00  
whatever. They'll have to add so much value that they

Holly Wittwer  47:02  
they'll just have to be the best, won't they? Yes, they will. So there you go.

Scott Groves  47:06  
Talk about. Let's close with this. Like, how does somebody get started if they're thinking about this journey? Like, give them some resources you have, or some things that they should look up, or a podcast they should listen to. Like, yeah,

Holly Wittwer  47:17  
listen, listen to our podcast because that's like our whole

Speaker 3  47:20  
aim of it,

Holly Wittwer  47:20  
so it's just home educated podcast.

Scott Groves  47:22  
Home educated,

Holly Wittwer  47:23  
yep, home educated. So we are literally our first 10 episodes are all just homeschooling one on one, how to get started. So in Nevada, we I have a list on the website as well that's 10 steps to get to get started homeschooling. And the first thing I heard somebody reference it this way the other day that they're like when the barn is on fire, you're not gonna look around and be like, "What paperwork do I need to fill out? Or you know, "What steps do I need to take to do this adequately? You just go in and you get the animals and you get them out of there, right? So it's like with the kids, if they're in a crisis situation, you know, because I'm like, half of the parents are taking their kids out for safety issues, not even just education. Like it's like their mental and physical safety is being harmed, and so they're getting their kids out for that. I cannot tell you how many times I'm hearing that instead of just like my kid isn't getting the amount of learning that they're supposed to be doing. It's literally more like I'm not sending them to a safe space anymore. Yeah. So when they're doing that, right, and they're in a crisis state, I'm like, just get them out. Just go walk into the school in the middle of the day, like it's your child. The school doesn't legally have like the right to be like you cannot take your child out of this school. You're the parent. Like go in there, get your child, walk them out. You do have to sign a paper with the school saying, "Hey, we're gonna homeschool, and you do have to send in a notice of intent within 10 days to the state, and that is Nevada, and that's it. Super easy. You do it one time, and we even have some some examples. Like, so a lot of parents get freaked out by the form, and they're like, "I don't know, I might like get this wrong, and I'm like, "You're not going to get it wrong. Like, it's fine. We literally have ChatGPT AI generated examples for you. Just change the kid's name, send it in. You'll be fine. Like Nevada is, it's gonna be just fine. So just do it. And then after that, it's like, hey, take a break from the whole idea of school. So the next step is just deschool your child. Okay, which is like get out of the whole idea that you have to be sitting at down at a desk to learn, right? And so we've got a whole literature on that on the website. Then it's like, hey, here's a bunch of book recommendations that we have for you. Like John Taylor Gatto, he is the godfather of homeschooling, and if you read like two books by him, you're gonna be like, yeah, I don't know why I ever thought that public school in the first place was a good idea. I'm like, just read a couple books, so we give references to all of those books so that we can, because you know, of course, when you educate the parent, then that's going to trickle down to the children, and that's really what all of this is about. Our goal is to educate the parents. Like we want the parents to feel like they are well equipped, so that they can feel confident in teaching their own children and how to get the resources when they don't feel confident. So we're we're excited about it. It's. Usually,

Scott Groves  50:00  
people can go to home-educated.org. We'll make sure that's in the show notes and all the stuff. Is there a place where people can find you personally, or is that not your jam? You want to just go to the website.

Holly Wittwer  50:08  
You can go to the website. We have a whole bunch of stuff on there. So if you, we actually have like a community board, so you can ask questions on there, and myself or my team will answer them. We have a find a friend tab, so that that way, if you're just looking to connect with other people, it's trying to get like if people want to be off of social media and stuff. I know a lot of people are like, I'm so sick of the Facebook scene and Instagram. I am still there too, and I'm like, we're building this website so that you can go there and be like, hey, I live in Henderson. I've got two kids. You know, they're super into jujitsu. We need friends, and then we've built in the whole system so that you can connect with people there. My email is on there. You can you can email me. That is perfect. Definitely the way to get in touch with me. So yeah, I'm happy to help.

Scott Groves  50:47  
Anything I forgot to ask? I feel like we covered a lot.

Holly Wittwer  50:50  
I do want to say one last thing is that so another need that has been seen in the community, and I believe that you were actually talking about this with Julian, who lives right down the street from me. He's my man. I love recommending him to people. Anybody who is an entrepreneur who is a kid, I'm like, hit this kid up. They're amazing. Out

Scott Groves  51:08  
to Sin City Scrappers, the trash removal.

Holly Wittwer  51:11  
Always seeing his truck rolling around and stuff, and all the kids wave, and I'm like, guys, that could be you. Like you could be running the business. They already are running their little mini businesses, but the need for trade schools. That is definitely going to be coming up here soon through Home Educated. The training for preteens, teens in the trades. So, just I guess

Scott Groves  51:33  
I'll talk to Coach Nick tonight and be like, they said, running this program twice a year. Maybe we need to run it 10 times a year. Yeah.

Holly Wittwer  51:38  
Yep. Absolutely. There's so many people out there who are ready to teach the next generation, and and it doesn't have to be in the cookie cutter format. So there's going to be a lot of fun stuff coming up.

Scott Groves  51:48  
Love it. Well, thank you for coming in, Ollie. I really appreciate it, and we're going to have you back when the school year starts, technical school year starts, so we can talk about it again. Yeah,

Holly Wittwer  51:55  
absolutely, love it.

Scott Groves  51:56  
Thanks. Thanks. Hey, it's Scott Groves with the Henderson HQ podcast, I hope you got something out of that episode. If you enjoyed it, please don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe to the podcast. It really helps the show grow. And by the way, if you are a business owner or you know a business owner who has an interesting product, service, or just an interesting backstory, please, please get in touch with us. Email us at the hendersonhq@gmail.com We would love to interview you because that's what this show is all about. It's about building community, supporting local, individually owned businesses, and just making Henderson a great place to live. And don't forget, go to hendersonhq.com and make sure you sign up for our newsletter. We send out a once a week newsletter, no spam, about the most interesting local businesses, hotspots, restaurants, community events. Thanks for watching the show. Really appreciate you.