Ep33 Leif Graham—Built A Beverage Brand With Zero Investors In One Year

Leif Graham  0:00  
I personally believe that most of the time you just need to push through. Life is hard because this is harder. Yeah, you just have to like the suffering, right? That's that's what jujitsu is. It's what business is: being comfortable in the uncomfortable and suffering through it.

Scott Groves  0:17  
Welcome to Henderson HQ. This is the podcast where you get all the stories behind the businesses that make our community tick. Don't forget to subscribe to our weekly newsletter. Hey, ladies and gentlemen, it's Scott Groves with the Henderson HQ podcast newsletter website. Make sure you subscribe and check us out at allthings hendersonhq.com We're here with a new friend of mine right now, Leaf. We met at Jujitsu and we're talking, exchanging some messages over Instagram. And I'm like, wait a minute, you have like a whole beverage company that you created and ran. So I'm sitting here drinking Hydra Mythic Grapefruit. I was telling him before we started, I like that he started with a grapefruit flavor and not just like lemon lime like everybody else does. So we're going to talk about this drink, building a business. What's crazy? What I just learned is this young man who, if you if you're listening to the podcast, not watching, lots of tattoos, long hair, very much that jujitsu vibe, used to be a first responder, federal agent. He was showing me the old pictures, like like a radical a radical change in what you're doing for a living and probably who you are as a person. So why don't you just start us like intro story of you, and then how do you decide, like, man, I want to go into the super competitive drink space and launch a brand. So, so give us your backstory, and then how does that lead to hydro? Which I'm not just saying this because you're on the podcast. This actually tastes really good. I've I'm an addict of energy drinks. Usually, while we're sitting here, I'm drinking a Jocko Go Energy, but I think I might be switching to Hydro. So, tell tell us more, man. Tell us more about.

Leif Graham  1:39  
Oh, yeah. No, I appreciate that. Shout out Jocko, even though we're kind of in the same space. Because realistically, I consider us more of like a functional beverage versus an energy drink, because we have premium ingredients that are supposed to do more for you than just an energy drink. So I guess he's kind of our competition. Jocko, what's up? Where you at? You might

Scott Groves  2:01  
you might sell like five more units than you. I don't know.

Leif Graham  2:03  
Yeah, but

Scott Groves  2:04  
but where did where does your journey start? And then how do you decide to get into like drinks with your lolly wife who's sitting here off stage?

Leif Graham  2:10  
Yeah, so she's the real boss. Yeah, this was all this was all her idea. Of course, no. Long story short, I grew up here in Las Vegas, had a pretty rough upbringing. Fast forward to like being an MMA fighter and all sorts of other stuff. I met a dude in the gym who had a CrossFit gym inside where I used to train at. He was a paramedic. He took me on a ride along. I was like, "What the is this dude? This shit is wild. You're telling me that I can blast dirty trap music, shotgun energy drinks, and run lights and sirens. Sold. I'm on. I'm on board. So that's kind of how that started. And then fast forward to becoming a federal agent. I had no idea. Like this guy that I worked with was like, "Hey, you should apply for this.

Scott Groves  3:01  
Which which federal agency can you say?

Leif Graham  3:03  
So I was a border patrol agent.

Scott Groves  3:05  
Okay, yeah, not very popular right now. With with 50% of the country, you're a hero. With 50% of the country, yeah, it is. You're not very popular these days. Like

Leif Graham  3:12  
I said, some people think I beat up brown people. Yes, dude, I

Scott Groves  3:16  
only on the gyms.

Leif Graham  3:17  
Yeah, I don't discriminate.

Scott Groves  3:18  
You'll beat up anyone. I'll beat anybody.

Leif Graham  3:21  
But no. So when I was there, I did a lot of search and rescue because that's kind of my thing, right? And so where I was stationed, we had we had a like a lot of different area, right? We had a river, we had desert, we had dunes, we had mountains, and so my thing that I found out I was good at was tracking people, like Native American style falling footprints through the sand, tracking people, and so that really helped me finding people when they were lost, right? Because we would get calls like, "Hey, I'm somewhere lost in these mountains, and please come and pick me up. I fell down and I broke my leg, right? So we have to extricate these people, all sorts of stuff. So that's kind of what I found out I was good at. Then we opened a jujitsu gym while I was doing that. It was awesome.

Scott Groves  4:05  
How long you been doing jujitsu?

Leif Graham  4:06  
Over 10 years.

Scott Groves  4:07  
Okay, cool.

Leif Graham  4:08  
Yeah. Long story short, we shut the gym down to move back to Las Vegas. I quit the border patrol to move back to Las Vegas to reopen our gym. A bunch of stuff happened. It ended up not working out, and I was like, dude, what do I know about? Because I found out that I love business more than I loved jujitsu in that moment. What do I know about? Well, being a first responder and a federal agent, it's like you shotgun energy drinks every day. You're slamming them. I was like, dude, I know everything there is to know about energy drinks. I didn't know anything about it. I didn't know how competitive the market was. I didn't know literally anything about drinks other than I drink them.

Scott Groves  4:47  
Well, sometimes as an entrepreneur, ignorance is like bliss, right? You don't know what you don't know, so you started.

Leif Graham  4:53  
And had it not been like that, I never would have gotten into this industry. Like if I knew what I knew then, now, no way. Absolutely not.

Speaker 1  5:00  
Right,

Leif Graham  5:01  
not even.

Scott Groves  5:01  
I think that's most business owners. Like, if I knew how hard it was going to be to compete, if I knew I'd have to be the marketer and the provider and the follow up and the tech guy, very few businesses would ever start if people actually knew what they're getting into.

Leif Graham  5:14  
Yeah, and I think the only reason we still exist so far is because I'm just too dumb to quit.

Scott Groves  5:19  
Good skill,

Leif Graham  5:20  
you know. I'm just like some days. I'd really like to give up, but I just-it's more work to give up than it is to just keep going.

Scott Groves  5:27  
Keep going, yeah.

Leif Graham  5:28  
Right. But also, the more importantly, I believe in what we're doing because we're trying to change people's lives with a product, right? I don't. I had a conversation recently with a guy who was like, "Oh, I sell water, and the messaging-it's-it's all about what's on the outside, not what's on the inside. I'm like, well, first, your water tastes like ass, so nobody's gonna buy it. And two, like you're not doing anything. Like you're not. Your message is, oh yeah, dude, you can do it. What what are you talking about? So I believe in what we're doing is as premium as possible. I put ingredients in there that can actually change people's lives. We're going to be working with the company. They have ketones. It's called GoBHB. We're adding that in because I believe in the ingredient, and I believe that ingredient can help change people's lives.

Scott Groves  6:13  
Explain what ketones do for people that don't aren't into the whole fasting, you know, meaty or culture and stuff. Explain what ketones are.

Leif Graham  6:20  
So ketone-that's super complicated. But this type of ketone specifically can create ATP, so straight cellular energy. So you can do an energy drink with no caffeine. We're not going to do that because I don't believe in that.

Scott Groves  6:32  
I wouldn't drink it if it had no caffeine. But yeah, okay. So ketoes can kind of like naturally fire up your body instead of that fake like caffeine or sugar cry and then crash.

Leif Graham  6:42  
Correct. It's like this branch of ketones basically sends notifications when your body's running low. It's like, hey, you need help over here. Hey, you need help over here, and it sends the workers out to go handle business and address those issues. If that makes sense. Yeah. Ketones help your body do so much, right? As far as energy, as far as efficiency, burning fat, general health.

Scott Groves  7:02  
How do you start? Because, like, I mean, obviously, we can Google or use ChatGPT and be like, "How would I start a drink business? But like, I happen to know because I I wouldn't say I'm friends. I'm friendly with Jocko. I've been to a few of his juju camps. I've kind of heard his story of building things, and he's like, "Dude, you don't even know what you don't know about getting line time and co-packagers, and he's like, you know, when we were doing 1000 cases, 10,000 cases, I could front that money. All of a sudden, you have to front the money for 100,000 cases of aluminum. It gets pretty expensive. So, how does how did you even get started? And like, how long has the journey been thus far?

Leif Graham  7:37  
There's so many ways to start, and if you know what you're doing, you can skip past all of it, right? You can just jump to, well, this is the drink we want, this is the flavor we want, this is how we're going to run it, and this is where we're going to run it. Boom, done, right? But if you don't know that, you have to figure it all out, right? And there's companies who will do all of it for you. We're doing everything by ourselves, right? We have no investors. We have nothing. That's not the right way to do it. It is, and it's not right because you're kind of in control of everything. You can make sure that you're doing everything the right way. Now, when it comes to the monetary part, it's like, well, I don't have enough money, right? Right, because like you said, it's like, okay, I have to front all the cash for all. So we'll get there, but for everything, right? So when you start, the way we started was we went to a company, and they're like, "Hey, it'll cost you X amount of money to for us to come up with the drink. You can go to these companies and be like, "I want to make an energy drink. They're like, "Okay, cool. Like, this is the flavor I want. These are the ingredients I want. You bounce back and forth, and they're like, "Okay, well, this works for this reason, and this doesn't, and so on and so forth. You bounce back and forth, sampling the flavors, and then you finally settle on it.

Scott Groves  8:49  
There's a lot of ingredients in

Leif Graham  8:52  
this-20-six ingredients.

Scott Groves  8:53  
Yeah, I mean, there's there's like, and not chemical ingredients, like some of the big boys that everybody knows. I mean, like I've I've read the ingredients and then looked them up on ChatGPT of like some of the shit that I've drank, and I'm like, oh, that's cancer in a bottle. Yeah, but this this is like vitamin D, calcium, iron, potassium, vitamin C, niacin, vitamin D, vitamin B12, panthocenic. I don't even know what that is. Caffeine, thank God, it's the only way I can make it through the day. I'm addicted to caffeine and nicotine, but like that's a lot, right? So like, so you go to this company and you tell them, okay, I believe in this list of ingredients. I need premium ingredients, and then how how long is the process back and forth before you formulate, you know, mythic grapefruit?

Leif Graham  9:34  
So for us, it took yeah about six months. We went through like 29 different flavor samples before I was finally like this is the one, because it was even adjustments as small as like coffee, caffeine from coffee or caffeine from green tea, and like most people might not be able to tell, but I could tell. I was like, okay, with the coffee caffeine, it's a little bit more of a round flavor. It's a little more robust, but I want something a little bit cleaner. A little bit lighter, because everything I did, I did with the thought of me in mind, right? Like how I train, right? When am I going to drink this? Why am I going to drink this, right? How am I going to drink it? So I thought about all all those things as we were sampling them, and so we ended up doing the green tea caffeine, but even like it was, yeah. Most

Speaker 2  10:24  
people would be

Leif Graham  10:25  
nobody would notice, but I noticed, right? And for me, everything that we do, I want us to do at top level. I want us to do premium, how we handle ourselves, how the drink is, how it looks, how it feels like it's textured, right? Yeah, like everything.

Scott Groves  10:38  
And I know, like I just know this because I know a few people that are in like manufacturing. I know if you have a textured can, like it doesn't seem like a lot, but you start adding a couple cents here, a couple cents there. You know, it really eats into your margin. And when I touch the can, I was like, "Oh, is this a wrapper? I'm like, "No, no, this is a textured can, and it it like actually feels better in your hand. Which shouldn't really matter if I'm just drinking an energy drink or a what did you call it? A functional beverage, but it does. It's like it's all these little texture feels and stuff. It's like it's why Apple spends millions of dollars trying to figure out how you're going to open the box and how the presentation is going to be. Exactly, all that stuff matters. So, how long did it take for you from like ideation through the six months of sampling, and then like before you sold the first can, because I I can only imagine how much time and money you were invested before you're like, oh cool, I have something I can sell

Leif Graham  11:26  
about a year altogether from start to finish before we launched it and started selling it about a year, holy cow, yeah, and that that was that's quick yeah right I know guys now in the beverage industry who are like we didn't get our first drink out for two years. Whoa! I'm like, I'm broke. I gotta get this. I make some money. But yeah, so there's a lot of different ways to do it. We did it the most expensive way possible because you don't know what you don't know, right? Right. That's usually where you first start a business, like low money. Yeah, and a lot of these companies will tell you that they're they're a full service, right? They they make the drink, they package the drink, they set you up with the the co-packer, the manufacturers, they do X Y Z, everything. It's so expensive. They're gouging you, and there's different ways to do it. There's companies who only do flavoring. That's all they do, but it's not because they actually do formulation. Also, so you can go to one of these flavor companies, sign a contract saying, "Hey, I'll use your your flavoring. Just make my drink. Most of them don't charge you to make the formula, so you can go get a a brand new formula for free as long as you use their ingredients,

Scott Groves  12:42  
didn't know that when you started. No,

Leif Graham  12:44  
no.

Scott Groves  12:45  
What What are some other lessons that you wish you would have like done more research on or looked into when you started? Because I think like if somebody's watching this and they're starting, they're thinking about starting a business, they don't they don't even know what they don't know, right?

Leif Graham  12:59  
That I mean, that's that's the key, right? Is you don't know what you don't know until you make the mistake, and you're like, "Well, that's fun. I love that for myself. For beverages, so our biggest strength is also our biggest biggest weakness as far as our like our label goes. So when you're a small business, you think about, I don't need a target market. My target market is humans because I need to make some money. I need to touch everybody. Right, right. That's wrong because now you're not going to hit anybody. Right, right. It's like you're throwing a dart into the ocean and hoping to hit a fish. Okay, doesn't make any sense. So for for us, the flip side of me doing everything according to the way I like things is I made this can like super sick. I was like, it's gonna look fucking sick. It's gonna be awesome. It's gonna be dark. It's gonna be cool. It's gonna be flashy. The art's gonna be sick. It's gonna be textured. So on so forth.

Scott Groves  13:56  
Very much looks like a tattoo that you might have.

Leif Graham  13:58  
Well, the funny thing is, our target market is people who are generally more health conscious, jujitsu athletes, you know, CrossFit athletes, CrossFit moms, you know, so on and so forth. They're never going to pick this up, never. None of these people are going to walk into a gas station, see this can, pick it up, and be like, "That's for me.

Scott Groves  14:20  
Hey guys, just a quick ad from our sponsors here that make this podcast and our newsletter possible. Want to give a shout out to Ethereal Med Spa, a gym for your skin. So doesn't matter whether you're doing anything proactive, all the way up to spot removal, all the way up to beautification, right or vanity. Ethereal Med Spa they got you covered, Scott Wright over at Wright Auto Body. Love them so. Anything from a scratch and dent to a big insurance job, all the way up to a custom rebuild of a classic car, they got you covered. And shout out to my buddy Casey Halstead, owner of 10th Planet Jujitsu, which now has three locations. They just opened a new location on the west side, so they got our headers. Location. They got a mid city location, and they've got a West Side location. So anywhere in the valley where you're looking to train jujitsu, check out 10th Planet Las Vegas. Now back to the show. Yeah, because because the health conscious person that wants the the ketones or wants the premium ingredients, they're thinking this is like a monster competitor that's cancer in a can. Exactly. Whereas like I mean, maybe this is the audience you're going to end up serving. This looks like something I would pick up if I was a truck driver and I had to go all night long, right? You know, on three hours of sleep.

Leif Graham  15:31  
That leads to the next point of, that's not what it tastes like.

Scott Groves  15:35  
But it tastes good. And again, I'm not just saying that because you're here. It's like I'm, I'm drinking. I already want another one, which probably shouldn't drink three or four of these. I'm guessing. Anyway, go ahead. Sorry.

Leif Graham  15:42  
No, so it is super good, right? Like it's it's light, it's refreshing, it does its job. But the problem is the flavor profile doesn't match the messaging. So the people who are going to pick it up thinking that it's like a monster knockoff or something, one, they wouldn't pick it up because it's premium, so it's priced above that, and two, they're going to drink it. It's not gonna be sweet, sugary, none of those things. They're like, this is ass, right? They're gonna throw it away. They probably won't throw it away because they spent the money on it. But they're never gonna pick it up again. Versus the people we want to buy it are never gonna buy it because it looks like this. So currently, we're actually in the middle of a rebrand. Okay, we're relabeling. We're trying to make our messaging better. Now we're still going to keep a lot of the same concepts as far as like texturing the can and having the artwork and the imagery be important, but we're going to go about it in a different way.

Scott Groves  16:31  
Yeah, because I could see like the name Hydra doesn't need to change because Hydra could be like this three-headed monster that you have on the can, and it's like very like angry and aggressive and like kind of like bro culture, but Hydra, just like in a different font, could also be kind of a play on like hydration, or you know the mini heads of your fitness, or you know stuff like that. Like that you're kind of going for a softer, gentler like yoga feel versus you know medieval jujitsu.

Leif Graham  16:57  
It's funny that you're the first person who's ever understood how the name Hydra came about? Okay, like most people don't think about the many facets in which you would drink it, right? They don't. That's not how people's brains work. But from that is the exact perspective I had when I came up with Hydra. People like, oh, Hydra was that? Doesn't make any sense. You're not Greek, nothing like that. I'm like, yeah, but when I'm thinking about what I wanted, I wanted a beverage that was multifaceted. I wanted something that could be utilized in a lot of different ways. So it has a lot of different heads. What has heads? Hydras. So that's how we ended up with it.

Scott Groves  17:37  
Yeah, because this could be like good for like pre-workout, pre-work, right? Like the number of pills I take and stuff before I start work and and start a podcast, so my brain can be just a little sharper than normal. But yeah, it's really it's really interesting, right? Because like sometimes I've talked to other business owners, and they're like the consumer that we thought we were going after is not the consumer we end up hitting, right? And like you have a certain look and style to you, and the tattoos and the long hair and stuff. So it's like in my mind, when I saw this and I saw you, I'm thinking like, oh, bro, this is a truck driver drink. Yeah, this is not a fitness drink that like a housewife would have before her 11 o'clock Pilates, right? Yeah. Um. So yeah, it's it's that's an interesting lesson. How long did it take you to learn that lesson before you realized you needed to go through the rebrand

Leif Graham  18:21  
like yesterday. Well, yes, you heard it here first. Exclusive, right? Also, another thing we discovered is our target market doesn't like the 16 ounce can. Really? Yeah. Most of them will drink half of it, set it down, or put it in the fridge and move on with their life, and then come back drink the other half later. So we're going to move to the smaller cans. Also, coming back full circle, when you're starting a business, you're not going to know who your target market is. But I think if you spend time in advanced really thinking about who you want to service, you will do that much better, and you'll go so much further right away. And obviously, that's going to change as the business unfolds. Your your market might change a little bit, but if you really have nailed down who you want to market to and sell to, who your product is going to benefit, because I I think that's the thing of a business, right? This is what I'm the most passionate about.

Scott Groves  19:10  
Okay,

Leif Graham  19:11  
this is it: is who can I help, right? And how can I help them? No matter what that, whether it's jujitsu, whether it's drinks, whether it's selling homes, no matter what it is. Who can I help, and how can I help them?

Speaker 3  19:25  
Right.

Leif Graham  19:25  
My mission is to help serve human beings in the best way possible, and for me, that's jujitsu, and that's functional beverages that I think can help people. And if you really nail that down, I think your business can go much further, much faster.

Scott Groves  19:42  
I know I don't know you that well, but I know that what you just said is 100 authentic because I know business owners usually get emotionally tied to things and their ego gets in the way. So, like for you, just everything we just discussed, I I know if you didn't believe that, who can we help and how can we help them? You wouldn't be willing to. A rebrand because you'd be like you'd be emotionally tied to your artwork and emotionally tied to like your initial ideas and like our ego. I've been a victim of this myself. Our ego gets in the way at such a high level. We can't like step back from the 30,000 foot view and be like, okay, what's actually working in our business? What's because you know like I run a coaching business for financial professionals, loan officers, stuff like that. When I first started, I was like, "Oh, dude, we're gonna have this super bro alpha male like culture, and it's gonna be making sales calls and doing your thing. And then what I found the audience I really resonate with is that like 40 to 50 year old woman who their kids their kids are about to be out of the house. I remind them of their dad because I don't sugarcoat, I just give it to him straight. And they're like, "Hey, man, I don't want to be like a killer and do hundreds of loans, but like I want to have a really good living and kind of like shore up my retirement before before I get to a certain age. And so, like a lot of a lot of my group are like older men, older women that are like in the second stage of their life, and they're like, "I just want to do a little bit better so I can retire with a little bit more money in the bank. And I was thinking I'd get a bunch of 20-five-year-old like alpha male sales. I want to work 80 hours a week, and it turns out I hate those people, and they don't like me, and they they don't get a lot out of my coaching. But it took me like five years to realize like, oh, I'm marketing to the wrong audience. Like, yeah, because again, my ego got in the way, which is crazy.

Leif Graham  21:23  
I love that. Like, I just again everything I do, I think I try to do in service. Like, I did design this with myself in mind because I thought, what am I looking for? What do I need? And what do I feel would help me? And how is it going to help me? Yeah, that was how I spun the wheels, and then I thought about you know well also that a little bit that ego came in well this is what I like and this is how I'm going to do it. We've helped a lot of people. A lot of people love our drink, but I'm not helping as many people as I could because I did it wrong. Yeah, and that's totally fine, right? I don't believe that there's anything wrong with doing things wrong, but it's how quickly can you adjust from that? Okay, I I missed my shot. How quickly can I get back on target and handle business? If I keep my ego involved, it's going to take me that much longer.

Scott Groves  22:12  
Yeah,

Leif Graham  22:13  
right. And then I will serve less people.

Scott Groves  22:16  
I think this is really interesting, right? Because like as business owners, we have to keep two thoughts in mind at the same time, it's like one thought is, well, sometimes I just need to like grind this out till I figure it out and keep working and keep doing what I'm doing. And then the other thought is like, well, there's a time and a place to like reevaluate and not throw good money after bad. Right. So it's like in jujitsu, since we both do that, there are certain moves that it just doesn't matter how long I try to grind it out. My body doesn't do that. Like I, I can't invert. I'm a 40-seven year old fat guy, right? So like, that's never gonna be my thing, no matter how much I practice. So now, like,

Leif Graham  22:48  
I teach privates. I got you. I got you.

Scott Groves  22:51  
Okay, we'll go out to the gym after this. But it's like, it's like, when do I just like power through and be like, all right, this needs another six months of attention versus like, all right, let's just evaluate the the reality on the ground, and like, when do we pivot? So, like, how do you know when to like? Okay, we're just grinding forward on this, and it's like, no, it's time to pivot, right? Because then the other side of it is like, entrepreneurs can get shiny object syndrome where they're pivoting every 30 days for sure. How do how do you probably listen to your wife? But how do you balance those two thoughts?

Leif Graham  23:18  
Yeah, you you answered it. I

Scott Groves  23:20  
answer just just do what your wife says. Yeah, yeah.

Leif Graham  23:22  
Man, that is the dichotomy that I live in, right? Because I am the guy who will just grind relentlessly, and and we were actually just having this talk on the way over here. Is like, I have a hard time shutting it down. Like, the wheels never stop turning ever, and that translates to how I do things every day, like with jujitsu. With jujitsu, I've been working on this specific armbar for the past seven months. Maybe not that long. I don't know. Feels like it. The thing is, it's a dumb technique. It is terrible, right? So for you jujitsu nerds, when they start go to outside passing from a camping position, they have their arm on your hip, their hand on your knee, and they start walking to the outside. Right, you can let them pass your guard, and you can pull that arm up, throw your legs over their head. You're not going to get the arm bar. I

Scott Groves  24:17  
was going to say, sounds low percentage.

Leif Graham  24:18  
It's so low percentage.

Scott Groves  24:20  
But when you give up versus keep grinding you and

Leif Graham  24:22  
laugh, but I do it every time, every time, every time somebody tries to pass me like that, oh, I'm gonna throw that arm bar up. I'm gonna throw it. One day it's gonna work.

Scott Groves  24:32  
One day, one time. But

Leif Graham  24:33  
so the caveat to that is developing the skills to mitigate the effects of that, right? Like as a business owner, there are things that you're going to be attached to, and that's totally fine. If it's hurting you, that's when you have to let that thing go, right? For sure. Like this is no. Not only is it not benefiting me, it is hurting me. I have to shut it down, right? If I if I go back to this move, I have really good guard retention, right? So if I fail the technique, I. Invert through, throw my legs back, boom! I'm squared back up. You didn't pass my guard. I didn't get the arm bar. No harm, no foul. Right? I'm just gonna keep trying it because it's fun. Right? And there are things in business that you do that are just fun. Right? You're gonna be like, "Oh, I enjoy spreadsheets. Said nobody ever. Nobody ever. He said,

Scott Groves  25:18  
except for this nerd right here. I actually love Google Sheets. Like every time I try to organize my thoughts, I'm like, "Oh, Google Sheets! Obviously, people are like, "God, Scott, don't send me another Google Sheet. So yes, I am that weirdo. But anyway, go go go forward. But you know, everybody has their thing that they they love to do. They they're attached to in their business. Totally fine.

Leif Graham  25:39  
I think in business, for the most part, you have to just grind all the time, no matter what. But it doesn't always look the same, right? It doesn't always mean doing this thing, right? Because when you run into a wall, it's like, okay, what are my options? Go through it, go around it, go over it, or go back. Those are all viable options, right? But you have to think about what you're trying to do, the magnitude you're trying to do it at, and you have to really be honest with yourself. And I think that's what it comes down to: is being honest with yourself, right? Like, what are my goals, and what is the fastest route to get there? And then from there, you can kind of decide: I have to pivot from this, right? Or I just need to push through, right? I personally believe that most of the time you just need to push through. Life is hard. Everything is hard.

Scott Groves  26:32  
Yeah, you just have business is harder.

Leif Graham  26:34  
Yeah, and you just have to like the suffering, right? That's that's what jujitsu is. It's what business is being comfortable in the uncomfortable and suffering through it. Once it starts to hurt you, like in that armbar position, say I'm getting armbared every single time off of it, or I'm getting my guard passed, or I'm suffering negative consequences every single time. All right, time to give it up because it's not fun anymore. It's not successful, and it's I'm I'm losing this. Not that no, I know what you mean. Losing in in the gym doesn't matter, right? Right, but you're going to start to build habits, and if you compete, you go out there compete, make the mistake, whatever. But once it starts affecting you, of like, okay, I'm getting smashed every single time from this position. I haven't been able to figure out why can't I figure it out because the move is ass, right? Like it's just it is not a good technique, right? And and that translates, right? Like for my label, my label is cool as shit, right? I love it. Like I am very attached to it, like you said, but my overall mission of serving other people is greater than me serving myself, and it's hard for me to do that with this, right? The way it is, because the wrong people are buying it.

Scott Groves  27:54  
That's a hell of a lesson, man. Like if you, I mean, people have heard some version of this a million times, like put your customer first or whatnot, but I think the way you just articulated it, like that's that's the thing, right? I was actually just talking to a a loan officer that I coach who has a couple junior partners, and luckily this podcast will be out after this person gets fired, so no fear. And she's like, we ran into this situation where the you know the clients like literally the moving truck is packed. They're supposed to close on Friday. They don't have a house to live in as of Saturday, and it just came up that the seller has some IRS lien on their house that they can't get cleared for like $300,000 They can't. They they they cannot like strategically sell the house, or there's no way for them to clear the house, sell the house because they don't have $300,000 to come in, and she's like, "I was having some problems with this employee to begin with, and he came in, did not care about the family, did not care that this person's life is totally displaced. He's just like, I can't believe we're not going to close this deal. I'm not going to get paid. And she's like, "Bro, that's the wrong thesis. Like, you have a family that's got a U-Haul truck packed. They thought they were moving into their dream home on Saturday. The seller wasn't forthcoming, and the title company kind of screwed up. And now we know 24 hours before they're supposed to move into the house that they don't have a house. And he was worried about his paycheck. And she's like, "He's gone. And I'm like, "Yeah, if you hadn't made that decision, I'm gonna make that decision for you because if you care about the client first, all the money will like fall into place. Yeah,

Leif Graham  29:23  
I'd be like, well, looks

Scott Groves  29:24  
like they're moving into your house there, Chief. They're staying with you for a month until they find a replacement home. So let's talk about distribution, right? Because you can have the greatest product, you can have a beautifully rebranded market, you can know your target audience, you can have the most premium ingredients, you can have a great tasting product like you can do all the things right, and if marketing and distribution falls apart, well then you don't really have a business. And I happen to know that how much space is on you know shelves at stores, so that's probably long long term play down the road. I know a lot of drink companies start just you know direct order and trade shows. And getting into an industry like jujitsu, where people start to know your product, what was the original idea, and where are you today for how you're going to actually sell this thing? Because I'm sure that has changed. I'm sure that has changed 30 times in the last in the last year or so. So, how did you originally think you were going to sell, and then like, what's the reality of how you're selling?

Leif Graham  30:18  
Dude, I thought I was going to sell out already. Like within three months, I was like, "I'm gonna sell all of our product. Yeah, I'm gonna thug it out. I did not, in fact, thug it out. I did not sell all of our product. Not even close. Distribution's hard, right? Because nobody wants to take a risk on you, right? Because you do have to fight for shelf space. Why would I buy your stuff, especially if it's more cost inefficient because it's premium? So we sell a little bit more expensive. When I can buy, you know, one of these other brands that have notoriety at a cheaper cost that I know is going to sell, you have to try to explain away their fears and be like, "Look, just take the shot. I'll make sure it sells. And then you really have to hustle, right? And that's in the beverage industry, especially if you're doing it the way we're doing it. It's challenging because you have to be everywhere, right? If I get my drinks into a store, I have to launch it. I have to go there and be like sampling it out, because otherwise, like we're talking about style.

Speaker 3  31:14  
Yeah, yeah,

Leif Graham  31:15  
100% Constantly doing, you said these trade shows, doing all this type of stuff. Just there's a saying in the beverage world: cans and hands, and that's what you have to do. We're predominantly in CrossFit and jujitsu gyms. What I've been doing is I'll go and I'll roll with people, and then I'll be like, "Oh, hey, that drink in the fridge over there-that's my drink. They're like, "Oh, whoa, that's yours. It's like, "Yeah, dude. They're like, "Whoa, you just choked me for six minutes. Right, it's

Scott Groves  31:43  
all the drink. It's not the 10 year of experience and the 1000s of hours on the mat. It's all the drink.

Leif Graham  31:48  
Yeah, like totally shotgun one of those, and then step on the mats. Like, throw it down.

Scott Groves  31:55  
Do you let them choke you now? Like, do you lose on purpose so that they feel like the drink worked? Yeah, maybe. Who knows? And just before I forget, what's your what's your website if people do want to give it a try and go order directly?

Leif Graham  32:07  
So you can look us up at on Instagram at Hydra Bev.

Scott Groves  32:12  
Okay,

Leif Graham  32:12  
you can buy our stuff from Instagram or our website is www.hydramerch m y d r

Scott Groves  32:17  
a h y d r a for people that don't know about the multi-headed monster. hydramerch.com Yeah, cool. Love it. I'm gonna I'm gonna order a bunch of cases because I like it. I wasn't gonna order the cases if I didn't like it, but I actually didn't like it. Hey, so

Leif Graham  32:30  
you know what though? That's that's what I want from people. I tell people all the time. I want your feedback. If you hate it, if you hate everything about it, tell me why. I want to know because we're still in such an infantile state. I can change things if that resonates with me. If I think that that makes sense, I can fix

Scott Groves  32:48  
it. Yeah.

Leif Graham  32:49  
Right. And maybe you'll never be a customer again, but you just helped me help somebody else, right? So if people hate it, I want to know that too. If you don't like it, don't drink it.

Scott Groves  32:59  
You mentioned going to the smaller can. Is that just because like the the target audience they want like lessen their system before they roll or do CrossFit, or is it just like is it have you have you got any feedback on like the taste profile is great for eight ounces, but you know 20 ounces or 16 ounces is too much, or like what what do you what are you hearing that's making you want to reduce the size of the can? By the way, and by the way, I love all this stuff on the size, fierce focus, primal performance, recovery, clean energy. Like it now bothers me that this branding is smaller than all the other branding because this is kind of what you're selling, right?

Leif Graham  33:36  
Yes.

Scott Groves  33:36  
Okay.

Leif Graham  33:37  
And so that that is one of the things we're working on after the podcast. I'll show you what our next sample is looking like.

Speaker 4  33:44  
Cool.

Leif Graham  33:44  
We have some sketches of kind of what our next can is going to look like. It's a total rebrand, total different. We're moving in a different direction, but we are what we are going to do, and so every can is going to feature a different character.

Speaker 3  33:58  
Oh,

Leif Graham  33:59  
right. So like originally we were going Greek themed, so we were going to be like, okay, our next flavor is going to be some type of apple. We were going to have Medusa, and then we were going to have like Cerberus or whatever. But we're rebranding to more of like a Japanese theme, and so we're still going to kind of keep that and do it that way.

Scott Groves  34:15  
Nice,

Leif Graham  34:15  
should be pretty cool.

Scott Groves  34:17  
Like anime characters or like samurai characters?

Leif Graham  34:19  
Samurai characters.

Scott Groves  34:20  
Okay, yeah, it sounds a little more on brand. Yeah, I like it. Yeah.

Leif Graham  34:24  
I am Japanese.

Scott Groves  34:26  
Japanese. Yeah. You do not look Japanese. No. No.

Leif Graham  34:30  
But is this

Scott Groves  34:32  
a joke? Are you really?

Leif Graham  34:33  
No, for real. Yeah, I feel in Japanese. Yeah.

Scott Groves  34:35  
Oh. Okay. You look like the whitest white dude I've ever met. You look like straight out of some Nordic country. Yeah. Um. I would. I would have had Japanese last on the list.

Leif Graham  34:42  
Yeah, you know, and and I don't mean this is a slight on Japanese people, but they have the weakest genetics. Like any time you have Japanese plus another race, you will never know. You'll never know they're Japanese. All

Scott Groves  34:58  
right, so talk to me like. What's what does the next couple years look like? Because obviously, I think you're a great ambassador of the brand because of what you do and your physicality and the jujitsu and stuff. But like, you can only sell so many cans one roll at a time. So, like, have you looked at some of the models that are out there? Whether it's you know taking on investors or you know you're going to get a bunch of Instagram influencers or like, what's the what's the the current long term marketing strategy, especially with the rebrand?

Leif Graham  35:25  
You have to be careful when you take investors with anything, right? So the goal is me. How I know? The goal is to build this the best that I can until it's no longer sustainable, and then we need to find investors. The thing is, if I go to an investor right now and I say, "Hey, invest in my company, they'd be like, "Yeah, that's cool, man. I want 30% of your company. Yeah, and it's like, "Oh, well, that sucks. Versus, "Hey, I built this thing already. I would like you to come in and be a partner. I'll have more leverage that way. Yep. Right. Versus like, please help me. I want this to survive. Yeah. Right. So finding that balance of like, I need to build build something good enough to have leverage, so that I don't get leveraged. Yeah. Um, is kind of the goal. Influencers for sure. Um, that's tough because influencers want to do the thing that they do, and just want to get paid for it, right? Regardless of what you're doing, right? And that's the tough part. Is it's like, well, yeah, but I need you to do X, Y, Z before I can pay you, right? Right? Especially as a small business, I would love to pay you, dude. If I just had money, I'd pay you for no reason, right? I just I physically cannot do that. I can't pay you unless you're making sales, and if you're not promoting the brand, you're not making sales. Everything is kind of, and this is just business in general. Everything is kind of a fine line of what you can do and what you can't do, what other people are willing to do.

Scott Groves  37:00  
Yeah, and what you can afford to do, right? Right. Like it'd be great to put your new can in front of pick whatever yeah million person influencer, but that's going to cost you a million dollars. I guess you don't have a million dollars to yeah, an exclusive with mr. Beast or who whoever. Yeah, it's like yeah, that's that's real stuff.

Leif Graham  37:16  
And so it's like there there are other ways to do it. Um, networking for sure, right? So the way I kind of look at things, you know, so I work with a lot of different guys. Like, so I'm one of the, I guess I don't have a title, but I work with the Colorado Wolverines for the PGF. Okay, right. I was the assistant coach this last season. What I do is I think about how can I make myself valuable to you, right? What things can I do to be valuable to you so that you, in turn, want to give back value, right? Now that's not why I do it, but when I think about relationships, and I kind of got yelled at from my wife because I told my kid this. Every relationship is transactional. Every relationship across the board is transactional, right? Like, if I tell you a joke and you laugh, I got paid with laughter, but that was a transaction. Now that's not why you do it, right? Right. But if our relationship has nothing, if you don't laugh at my jokes, well, then I'm going to stop telling you jokes. And if I'm not telling you jokes, then we're probably not going to talk a whole lot. That's how every relationship is. If there's no benefit either way, then we don't have a relationship. Yeah. Right. And so I just try to make myself as valuable as possible with all of the skills that I have, all of the knowledge I have. How can I benefit you? And then, in turn, hoping that you will want to turn around and reciprocate that. When it comes back to networking, I've made myself valuable in this way to these people. Maybe they'll be willing to reciprocate. Hey, I need help. Would you be willing to do X, Y, Z for me? The key to that is not getting upset when they say no, right? Like I never try to leverage a relationship, and then get upset if they're not willing. I would be dumb for that, right? Right. And then I also wouldn't have a lot of friends because everybody would see like, oh, you're just trying to use this person. Yeah. Like, no, I'm asking if you can help. If you can, I would love it. If not, no sweat. I don't care either way, right? Because I still have to accomplish the missions and tasks that I have to accomplish with or without you. If you choose to help, I appreciate it. If not, keep doing your thing because we all have things that we have to do.

Scott Groves  39:32  
You know, it's funny because I'm going to mess up the language. I'm going to mess up the terminology. I'm going to mess up the report or the study. But I remember reading this in a in a book or like a Harvard Review study, where they looked at businesses on like who are simultaneously the most successful and the most likable, right? Like like that Venn diagram of they're likable and they're successful. So it's like you have the sociopaths who are just like me, me, me, and those people can make great salespeople and they can make the company a lot of money, but nobody likes them. Right, but then ironically, on the other side of the spectrum, where it's like the person that's just always giving and always the cheerleader and whatnot, people don't actually like them either because it almost feels fake. Yeah, and I can't remember what they called the perfect thing in the center. It was I don't know, maybe the strategic connector or something like that. Again, I'm butchering the language, but you'll get the idea. It was the person in the middle who was like, they were successful, they were driven, but they were also likable, and the reason was is because they would make the strategic ask. They would, you know, they would say like, "Hey, we're we're we're friendly. Can you come on my podcast because I need content? And that'll be like good for you to get brand awareness out there, right? Like this is a transaction, but I don't think there's anything inauthentic about it. So it's like those people in the middle of like, if you can make yourself successful, hungry, aggressive, also likable, it's usually because you've mastered this idea of like, how are we managing this transaction? Right. Yeah. Now, if you ask me, can I come on the podcast five times and can I be in the newsletter for free, and can I do this? Which I've I've had some people ask me that. I'm like, dude, you're just a taker. There's nothing. There's no authenticity about you. Like you haven't asked to give anything back. I'm like, can you at least subscribe to the newsletter? Like, give me a subscriber, and they won't do that, right? Yeah. And so it's it's pretty it's pretty crazy that like finding that middle ground. I think it's harder than most people think.

Leif Graham  41:19  
It shouldn't be, right? It shouldn't be because I just again everything I come I think about is is service,

Speaker 1  41:27  
right?

Leif Graham  41:29  
If I'm valuable to you, if I make myself valuable to you, you'll want to inherently be around me.

Scott Groves  41:35  
It's funny you mentioned about the the value add in those like relationship transactions. A friend of mine, Hal Elrod, who wrote the book *The Miracle Morning* we were at a mastermind group together, and he got super busy because his book blew up. He sold millions of copies, speaking engagements, and mastermind groups, and podcast requests, and whatnot. And at one point, he had to go through his phone. I thought this was an interesting exercise, and he like you know large piece of butcher paper on a desk, wrote a line down the middle, and he's like, "I need to identify like who are my growth mindset and value-added friends, and who are my like maintenance friends. Doesn't mean I'm going to totally give up that relationship, but it's like if these people are just always takers and they're always complaining about the same thing, and they don't add value to my life or they're not in a growth mindset, I I just logistically don't have time on my plate for them. He's like, it's really hard to put like a relative on the maintenance side of things and be like, I'll accept every fifth call from them. But what I really need to be doing is like focusing on these value add people. And he wasn't doing it in like a you know like a Machiavellian. I only have relationships where I get stuff out of them. He's like, but if I'm going to talk to Scott, I want to know I get some benefit out of that conversation, even if it's just talking about our kids or whatnot. And I think a lot of people get stuck in these like maintenance relationships where it's like you're giving a lot more than you're getting. Yeah, and like as a business owner, especially with as busy as you are with all the things that you're doing, like you kind of have to surround yourself with the growth value add people, right? Yeah,

Leif Graham  43:00  
and that's the thing is, I don't believe in that, right? Like, even in the workplace, like we we still work full time jobs, and it's like, I am not gonna placate to anybody if I don't like you. I don't like you. It's that simple. Like, I don't have to communicate with you. I don't have to say, "Hey, what's up? How are you? No, I don't. I don't. I don't give a shit, right? Right, and also don't give a shit about me. That's totally fine. We were friends in the fifth grade. Okay, cool. That's great. What are you doing now?

Scott Groves  43:30  
Right. That's what Instagram's for. So you can do a quick check in on where all your heykel friends are from. Yeah, I'll talk to them.

Leif Graham  43:35  
Like, does it matter? And I don't mean that in a a bad way, but like, does what you're doing with your life matter to me? No, and and vice versa. I personally believe you are who you surround yourself with, and if you're not around people who are trying to grow and reach the next level, and and not everybody's next level looks the same, right? Like I business you inherently want to make money for sure,

Scott Groves  43:59  
right?

Leif Graham  43:59  
That's not why I'm doing this? I'm not trying to build the next multi-billion-dollar corporation, right? Would it be cool? Yeah, that'd be sick, right? The more money I have, the probably means the more lives I can change, or the more lives that I have changed, right? That just means that I built a bigger thing, but that's not why I'm doing it, right? The next level to me is like, it's that exact thing. How many people have I helped? Right. And each phase of the business will allow me to do that. And for me, that's that's cool, right? Other people are like, oh, the next level for me is making millions of dollars, right? Right. Or the next level for me is get my blue belt, or you know, hitting this weightlifting PR, or hitting a mile, whatever, whatever your thing is, that's totally cool. But that still shows a growth mindset, being more of a present father, like being there for my kid more. Like, hey, I want to, you know, I work long hours, but I want to be there for my kids. Basketball games every single time he just tries right, just getting after it. That is to me like going back to grinding through things. That is grinding through things, right? Like sticking with your commitments, regardless. And those are the people I I surround myself with.

Scott Groves  45:15  
Do you happen to know Dan about my age? We kind of look similar actually. People call him Timu Scott. I'm Timu Dan. He comes. He comes at six a.m. because he owns a company. I actually just interviewed him a couple weeks ago called Push Press, where they do the software, like the billing software, the the you know client management stuff for CrossFit gyms. And now they're breaking into jujitsu, right? So I think it'd be an interesting connection for you to talk about, like, okay, well, how do we get critical mass with hundreds, if not 1000s, of CrossFit gyms? Because I was just, I couldn't help but think as you talk, it's like jujitsu and CrossFit. There's probably a million people in America that do those two sports, right? Yeah. So it's like, if you had five or 10% of CrossFit jujitsu athletes ordering a case of this a month, you would be a billion dollar corporation, right? So like, what's the what's the pathway for you in marketing to just keep getting in front of those audiences and telling them the story? Like, are you gonna go on a road show that's like jujitsu gym from jujitsu gym with tasters and like what? What the heck? What's the plan? Get in the truck with the ex-martial arts guys and just drive their RV around the country and yeah, and do some taste testing.

Leif Graham  46:20  
I can sell this to anybody, and I can get anybody to try it. And a lot of people like it. And most people who drink it come back and drink it again.

Scott Groves  46:28  
I just down the whole can. And if I had like a white monster, which I like to laugh at because just the branding is funny. If I had that, I would not be able to drink 16 ounces. It's too yeah. It's too heavy. It's too sugary. It's just like gives me like stomach cramps or bloating or something. Sorry, monster, your drink sucks. But I just drank 16 ounces of that, and I feel fine.

Leif Graham  46:46  
So the cool part is, if you break it down, caffeine makes you vasoconstrict, so your blood vessels or like your they start to close up. Your blood pressure goes up. That's why you start to get the jitters and all that. With the ingredients we have, it helps prevent that, so you stay vasodilated, so you don't get the jitters or the crash because you never really got a huge up. It's mostly focus. It's mostly a brain drink.

Scott Groves  47:09  
There you go, brain drink.

Leif Graham  47:10  
So the thing is, the product doesn't sell itself. So I think once we rebrand, the product will start to carry its own weight more, and then I can I'll be more free to go and promote it in different ways.

Scott Groves  47:21  
So you're saying, like, introduce it once, the can, the branding will sell itself. Yeah. After you've made the initial introduction, but for now, you kind of have to be like there telling the story. Correct. Okay.

Leif Graham  47:31  
And and I think that's the thing is when you're selling anything, you're you're selling yourself. You're selling your story, not necessarily a product. Nobody cares about just another drink, right? They don't. Nobody does. Nobody does. Right.

Scott Groves  47:42  
I want to ask the tough question in business, right? Because we all have like we all have a runway. No matter no matter how hard you're willing to grind, whatnot. Like eventually, sales have to sustain the business, right? Yeah. So, do you have a time frame of like I got to make this work within X number of years, or you're like, I don't care if this takes me 10 years, I'm gonna I'm gonna make it happen, right? Because there's crazy business stories of companies that lost money for a decade and then turned the corner, or you know, five hour energy drink. He was trying to make another 12 ounce, 16 ounce can. Then he's like, "Oh, I wonder if I sold it in shot forms. And then that changed everything, right? One little decision. So are you like, "All right, I've got a couple year runway on this, and I got to get to a million cans a year, or is it just like every day? Just try to do a little bit better.

Leif Graham  48:23  
Every day, do better. I'll do it. I'll I'll roll this till the wheels fall off.

Scott Groves  48:27  
Perfect.

Leif Graham  48:28  
Like I'm not going to stop, right? Unless I I physically have no way to continue to do it, right? Like say I run out of money, whatever, which could happen very very easily. But until I am forced to stop doing this. I will continue to do it, and that's just how I am with everything. Like until I am forced to stop doing this thing, I won't stop.

Scott Groves  48:48  
I love it. That's a good way to end the podcast, man. Thanks for being on. One more time, website where they can get it, Instagram, all that fun stuff.

Leif Graham  48:56  
Yeah, you can look us up on Instagram. That's where we do most of our work at Hydra Bev, I would tell you my personal tag, but it's silly. But find me on there. I got a bunch of good jujitsu content, silly stuff. Or our website is hydra merch.com

Scott Groves  49:11  
All right, thanks, man. Hey, it's Scott Groves with the Henderson HQ podcast. I hope you got something out of that episode. If you enjoyed it, please don't forget to like, comment, and subscribe to the podcast. It really helps the show grow. And by the way, if you are a business owner or you know a business owner who has an interesting product, service, or just an interesting backstory, please, please get in touch with us. Email us at thehendersonhq@gmail.com We would love to interview you because that's what this show is all about. It's about building community, supporting local, individually owned businesses, and just making Henderson a great place to live. And don't forget, go to HendersonHQ.com and make sure you sign up for our newsletter. We send out a once a week newsletter, no spam, about. The most interesting local businesses, hotspots, restaurants, community events. Thanks for watching the show. Really appreciate you.